That she’s so named implies that she had specific interest in Susanna

The latest genealogists the consider it high one to Nicholas’ spouse Clementia is integrated right here since the, not as much as typical facts, she’d not mentioned. When Susanna at specific later date got over to a special guardian, the fresh wife of this guardian wasn’t mentioned.

This will signify Queen John spent a bit indeed there and you can the possibility of an amorous liaison with Clementia exists

Below listed here is a principle complex because of the certain eminent genealogists, but it’s fair to say that the fresh new results try hotly contested!

This theory results in a great and you can interested ‘twist’ regarding tale from Joanna, that could attention admirers from HBD!

On top, there is absolutely nothing to strongly recommend any commitment involving the hostage, Susanna away from Wales and you can Clementia, partner out of Nicholas de Verdun. But not, the experience of some genealogists with foreign hostages, like young ones, has been that they had been have a tendency to place with family members, if any had been available.

Bouncing forward to 1236, there is certainly an admission in the Tewkesbury annals and this relates to Joanna’s mommy because “King Clemencie!” They reads in part:

Today, we know that mommy out of Joanna are entitled Clementia (Clemence?

In this case the new monk was obviously indulging inside gothic legalism. Before their death, Joanna got legitimised from the Pope. Based on one to legitimisation, the newest Tewksbury monk plainly took they on themselves to elevate Joanna’s mom toward standing of Queen, since if their unique mom is King John’s partner! It is a fact yet not, you to definitely King John and you can Clementia have been never ever partnered. Of the dealing with Joanna’s mommy just like the “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk just who filed Joanna’s demise are exhibiting their tall regard for Joanna, however wanting to change the real facts.

As for the label away from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget implies that she is new child out of Roger de- Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. One genealogist considers they significant that Clementia regarded away from Wiltshire once the they have pointed out that Queen John had a powerful connection to help you you to definitely state, they being the house off their most trusted partners, the latest Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have found that identity ‘Clementia’ is actually very unusual among English noblewomen associated with months. In a single dining table out-of women’s labels that was gathered, there are simply several incidents of your identity “Clementia” regarding all in all, 1407 ladies in the attempt! The fact individuals titled Clementia could be for the Susanna represents significant.

Thus! The data is effective, not definitive, one in 1228, Susanna, while the an excellent hostage, got over to the fresh care of their particular maternal grandma, now partner regarding Nicholas de- Verdun!!

The fresh Scottish genealogists of one’s MacDuffs’ hold you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 within the Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 from inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl Trykk pГҐ denne lenken of Fife in 1230 along with several students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl of Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.

However, you can find stop objections to any or all that it supposition! Queen John had of numerous mistresses and possibly as many as seven illegitimate children. The caretaker away from Joanna would have been born circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself came to be circa 1191 (fourteen yrs . old at the time of their unique relationship to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh understood genuine daughter out-of Nicholas de Verdun and his wife Clementia came into this world circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia is actually the caretaker of Joanna, she’d can be found in their unique late 30’s, early 40’s when having a baby to Rohese! Maybe not impossible, particular say, however, not likely.